Comments on: Ten Questions with Joe Armstrong about Parallel Programming and Erlang http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programming-and-erlang/ A Blog on Parallel Programming and Concurrency by Michael Suess Mon, 12 May 2008 10:08:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Yariv’s Blog » Blog Archive » Amazon SimpleDB Runs on Erlang http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programming-and-erlang/#comment-36068 Yariv’s Blog » Blog Archive » Amazon SimpleDB Runs on Erlang Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:53:11 +0000 http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programming-and-erlang/#comment-36068 [...] I just came across this blog post: http://www.satine.org/archives/2007/12/13/amazon-simpledb/. The author got the scoop that Amazon’s just-released SimpleDB runs on Erlang. This is actually the second Amazon Web Service that runs on Erlang — at least, if the rumors I’ve heard that Amazon SQS was built with Erlang as well are true (update: I found the reference in this article: http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programmi...). [...] […] I just came across this blog post: http://www.satine.org/archives/2007/12/13/amazon-simpledb/. The author got the scoop that Amazon’s just-released SimpleDB runs on Erlang. This is actually the second Amazon Web Service that runs on Erlang — at least, if the rumors I’ve heard that Amazon SQS was built with Erlang as well are true (update: I found the reference in this article: http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programmi...). […]

]]> By: Michael Suess http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programming-and-erlang/#comment-7604 Michael Suess Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:35:42 +0000 http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programming-and-erlang/#comment-7604 I do realize Joes answers were the most controversial of my interviews. Please also note, that I did not try to "softball" anyone, all of the interview participants were asked the same questions - and no more. But obviously Joes answers raised the most interest, therefore maybe I will ask him to answer your comments some day... I do realize Joes answers were the most controversial of my interviews. Please also note, that I did not try to “softball” anyone, all of the interview participants were asked the same questions - and no more. But obviously Joes answers raised the most interest, therefore maybe I will ask him to answer your comments some day…

]]> By: Ben St. John http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programming-and-erlang/#comment-7488 Ben St. John Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:27:27 +0000 http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programming-and-erlang/#comment-7488 Michael, I like your idea to interview some top people, and its execution, but I do feel you soft-balled things a bit for Joe. For example, the claim that parallel programming in Erlang isn't harder, the claim that the world is parallel (well, yes, but it's also serial, and *so what*?), and also the claim that message passing is the way to go all would have benefitted from a follow-up question. Regarding the last claim, while I agree in many cases it is, and it definitely makes things simpler, it also has costs, and this should at least be recognized. Nonetheless, thank you! Michael, I like your idea to interview some top people, and its execution, but I do feel you soft-balled things a bit for Joe. For example, the claim that parallel programming in Erlang isn’t harder, the claim that the world is parallel (well, yes, but it’s also serial, and *so what*?), and also the claim that message passing is the way to go all would have benefitted from a follow-up question.

Regarding the last claim, while I agree in many cases it is, and it definitely makes things simpler, it also has costs, and this should at least be recognized.

Nonetheless, thank you!

]]> By: Ian Davis http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programming-and-erlang/#comment-7486 Ian Davis Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:11:26 +0000 http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programming-and-erlang/#comment-7486 In response to Joe, Michael stated “parallel programming is still harder and less productive than its sequential counterpart.” To which Joe replied “It’s not harder - it’s hard.” To keep this short: 1. How is debugging a parallel application easier than a serial application? How does this not make it harder? 2. How can you verify the correctness of your parallel algorithm? Verifying serial algorithms is relatively straight forward. 3. How does the introduction of needed fault tolerance and load balancing not increase the difficulty? What does one do to minimize the synchronization time? How do we recover when the master dies? Worker? The job cannot be allowed to stop and we have to manually figure out how to recover. How do we deal with problems whose processing pieces are not a multiple of the number of nodes we have? Along that line, what about the cache/memory/swap envelope? 4. How does having to rewrite the serial application into a parallelizable form not increase difficulty? This includes trying to figure out which parallel algorithm will have the best performance. -Ian In response to Joe,

Michael stated “parallel programming is still harder and less productive than its sequential counterpart.” To which Joe replied “It’s not harder - it’s hard.” To keep this short:
1. How is debugging a parallel application easier than a serial application? How does this not make it harder?
2. How can you verify the correctness of your parallel algorithm? Verifying serial algorithms is relatively straight forward.
3. How does the introduction of needed fault tolerance and load balancing not increase the difficulty? What does one do to minimize the synchronization time? How do we recover when the master dies? Worker? The job cannot be allowed to stop and we have to manually figure out how to recover. How do we deal with problems whose processing pieces are not a multiple of the number of nodes we have? Along that line, what about the cache/memory/swap envelope?
4. How does having to rewrite the serial application into a parallelizable form not increase difficulty? This includes trying to figure out which parallel algorithm will have the best performance.

-Ian

]]> By: A Jackson http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programming-and-erlang/#comment-7139 A Jackson Sat, 21 Apr 2007 16:15:36 +0000 http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programming-and-erlang/#comment-7139 Grant: You missundersood what Joe said. HE doesn't want to recommend any, he uses Emacs. But there are others, like additions to Eclipse etc. Grant: You missundersood what Joe said. HE doesn’t want to recommend any, he uses Emacs.
But there are others, like additions to Eclipse etc.

]]> By: Paul Morrison http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programming-and-erlang/#comment-6865 Paul Morrison Tue, 17 Apr 2007 19:28:16 +0000 http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programming-and-erlang/#comment-6865 I appreciate the kind words from Joe, and of course I agree with most of what he says! Maybe you might find the FBP web site interesting, and perhaps even contribute to the FBP Wiki - that goes for anyone reading this web site, of course! I appreciate the kind words from Joe, and of course I agree with most of what he says! Maybe you might find the FBP web site interesting, and perhaps even contribute to the FBP Wiki - that goes for anyone reading this web site, of course!

]]> By: Grant http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programming-and-erlang/#comment-5543 Grant Tue, 03 Apr 2007 20:48:11 +0000 http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programming-and-erlang/#comment-5543 I don't see a parallel language ever becoming mainstream without correctness, performance, and other development tools. I was quite disappointed with Joe's answer to the query about development tools. Are there really no developer tools available for Erlang, or did I misinterpret his answer? I don’t see a parallel language ever becoming mainstream without correctness, performance, and other development tools. I was quite disappointed with Joe’s answer to the query about development tools. Are there really no developer tools available for Erlang, or did I misinterpret his answer?

]]> By: Erlang-China » Blog Archive » 【转】Erlang 的分布通讯安全策略 http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programming-and-erlang/#comment-5122 Erlang-China » Blog Archive » 【转】Erlang 的分布通讯安全策略 Thu, 29 Mar 2007 05:30:17 +0000 http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programming-and-erlang/#comment-5122 [...] 转贴注： 在前面转贴的“ThinkingParallel 对 Joe Armstrong 的访问”中，Joe Armstrong 自己也提到，如果现在有机会让他重新再来实现 Erlang，他很想引入一个全新的安全机制(可能类似于Java的，不过我认为Java的安全机制过于复杂，很难理解)，以取代目前的“All or None”权限控制模式。 [...] […] 转贴注： 在前面转贴的“ThinkingParallel 对 Joe Armstrong 的访问”中，Joe Armstrong 自己也提到，如果现在有机会让他重新再来实现 Erlang，他很想引入一个全新的安全机制(可能类似于Java的，不过我认为Java的安全机制过于复杂，很难理解)，以取代目前的“All or None”权限控制模式。 […]

]]> By: Erlang-China » Blog Archive » ThinkingParallel 对 Joe Armstrong 的访问 http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programming-and-erlang/#comment-4985 Erlang-China » Blog Archive » ThinkingParallel 对 Joe Armstrong 的访问 Tue, 27 Mar 2007 08:03:42 +0000 http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programming-and-erlang/#comment-4985 [...] 暂时没有时间翻译，先把原文发上来，原文地址在这里 。 [...] […] 暂时没有时间翻译，先把原文发上来，原文地址在这里 。 […]

]]> By: Michael Suess http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programming-and-erlang/#comment-4713 Michael Suess Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:36:58 +0000 http://www.thinkingparallel.com/2007/03/20/ten-questions-with-joe-armstrong-about-parallel-programming-and-erlang/#comment-4713 Hi Andrew: I appreciate your comments. I know Joe's answers to one or two of the questions were not that difficult to guess when you already know him (e.g. when you hang out on the Erlang Mailing Lists often). But I suspect most of my readers don't do that and don't know Joe that well - and besides, I hope a lot of fun will come from the differences between the answers of the people I have asked - and I can assure you that they don't all agree to the points Joe raised :-) Hi Andrew: I appreciate your comments. I know Joe’s answers to one or two of the questions were not that difficult to guess when you already know him (e.g. when you hang out on the Erlang Mailing Lists often). But I suspect most of my readers don’t do that and don’t know Joe that well - and besides, I hope a lot of fun will come from the differences between the answers of the people I have asked - and I can assure you that they don’t all agree to the points Joe raised :-)

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